Dog Training Community

Hi Jeff. This is not a behavior problem but just a silly, fun thing. Seamus is going to play "Sandy" in a lower/middle school production of "Annie." It's a small school and only one low key performance in the gym. He loves children and is used to hanging around school (and for the last couple of months training in the gym with great treats), so I think it will be fun for him. He's only got two scenes: one in which he has to come to Annie, sit and let her sing to him, and another at the end where he's given to Annie as a gift. The little girl who's playing Annie loves dogs and we plan to spend lots of time letting them get to know and enjoy each other (and put fabulous treats in her pocket). 

Just for fun, we'd like to train Seamus to "take a bow." The problem that I've been having is that most of his other "tricks" begin with him sitting (sit, stay, shake, beg, down, roll over). When he sees we're going to train he runs to me and sits in anticipation. But... "take a bow" has to be done from a standing position. He's been a little anxious and frustrated trying to figure out what I want, and his first answer is that the hindquarters come down. He's so sweet - then he tries every possible trick he knows to get the treat! I tried putting a hand under his belly to keep him from sitting but this makes him really upset, so I can't teach him that way.

How would you break down "take a bow" to teach him? Obviously, I want it to be fun for him and not anxiety provoking.

One thing we've been doing as a family is trying to catch him when he stretches his front legs and say, "Take a bow!", then give him lots of praise (probably having treats would be better but we haven't been that prepared). 

Hi Jeanne,

Good for you for undertaking such a fun task to give you and Seamus a training goal.

I created a post for you to read about this, complete with a video of Ranger doing the final behavior.  Your strategy of "catching him" doing the behavior when he stretches is very savvy and will help shape the behavior if you have good timing and the reward that you use is very motivating for Seamus.

Read the post and ask if you have questions. Go slowly and try and make a bit more progress each session and you will do great.

Take pictures or video and share with the community! 

Thanks, Jeff. What hand signal can we use for "take a bow?" I am looking for a signal that's not like the one I give him for "down," which is an index finger pointed at the ground. Seamus really looks for a visual cue and I'd like to give him a clear one.

You can push your hand flat along the ground (as if you are pushing straight down), or take your hand and curl it towards your body (as if you are rubbing your shirt with your fingers pointed towards the ground) and then turn your hand over and show your palm.

You first need to lure the behavior by moving the treat towards Seamus' tail before you change it to another cue. 

When I catch him stretching his front legs, should I use the hand signal? Or just click and treat?

Also, I want to make sure I have the right sequence: 1. lure behavior with treat, 2. give hand signal, 3. bring back to standing, 4. click/treat

Is that right?

Just click and treat. You can increase the motivation for repeating a behavior by rewarding it. On the other hand, if your timing is good and you know that he is about to do that behavior, cue him before he does it, not during. Then, click when he is doing the behavior and then reward. 

Great question. Most lure movements are designed to both motivate a dog to move into position and also represent the final motion of the cue. For instance, when you lure a dog to sit, you put the treat above his nose and move your hand back towards his tail. This looks similar to the final cue that a lot of trainers use which is putting their palm up and bring their hand up to their shoulder. It is not exactly same as the movement of the lure, but close.

You need to keep in mind that luring is used to motivate a dog to do a behavior multiple times with each time resulting in a reward. Then, the hand signal is used to represent the luring motion already put into action by the repetitive movements of the lure. After enough repetition, the dog will see the hand signal and will do the behavior in anticipation of getting a reward.

So, you want to do the following pattern:

1. Lure behavior with treat
2. Click (or say, "yes" for those of you not using a clicker) at the exact moment your dog is doing the correct behavior
   
3. Move lure in front of your dog and a bit above his head to make sure he stands
4. Reward

So, the click marks the corrrect behavior. The reason for rewarding a short time after and moving your hand is to make sure your dog stands and completes the behavior.

Once you get reliability with the lure (this may take many sessions), then you can fade out the lure by taking the treat out of your hand and creating a more subtle version of the movement you did with the lure. You should now be slowly moving towards your final desired cue.

It is also very common to present a final cue and have a dog look at you like he has no idea what the heck you are asking of him. No worries. Help him get the right behavior even if it means putting a treat in your hand and luring him as you did on day one. Sometimes dogs inexplicably regress. Don't get hung up on it. Just help him get the behavior. Eventually he will do it on his own. 

Hi again, Jeff. We're still working on "take a bow." However, when I try to lure the behavior, Seamus keeps stepping back instead of stretching his legs down to get the treat. He now knows that standing and putting his head down to his toes is close to what I'm asking for. Any suggestions for how to get the rest of the way there? He's so close!

I've been rewarding him for putting his head down and bringing it back up when I give the cue. Is that a good or a bad thing for me to be doing? I don't want to reinforce the wrong behavior but I do want to give him some reward for moving in the right direction.

Hi Jeanne, 

Try pushing the treat along the floor back towards his tail, this seems to help dogs understand to bow down. If this is what you are currently doing, try moving the treat down from his nose and keep it on his body as you move it down to the floor.

As far as your question about his head movement, try and 'click' or say, "yes" at the position where he is closest to what you are looking for and try and get just a bit more of the movement each time. 

Also, do really short sessions and end on a good note to motivate him to continue trying to figure out what you want. This might take some time, but stick with it and just get a little more progress each time. 

Let me know if you have more questions.  

Hi Jeff. I forgot to post and say that when we worked on this trick consistently every night, Seamus learned it in about a week. It's now a reliable part of his repetoire. (Although we'll see if it's reliable in front of an audience and under bright lights.) Thanks!

Jeanne